When John David Washington, the star of features like Tenet, Monsters and Men, and BlacKkKlansman logs onto our Zoom call from Los Angeles, I’m first struck by his t-shirt. He’s wearing one of those commemorative Do The Right Thing tees from Spike Lee’s 40 Acres and a Mule brand/production house.
That same week I’d started a personal reappraisal of Lee’s work thanks to some new criterion releases in the UK and had the Blu-ray disk for Jungle Fever next to me. When Washington catches a glance he begins to wax lyrical about multiple scenes and small details in the film.
“There’s that one scene where she leaves the dad’s house and the camera tracks her and there’s that one song. It’s Stevie [Wonder] he did the whole score. What was that song again?” Washington says. It’s clear he knows his stuff. And it’s with the same erudite intensity and generosity that he speaks about the writing of the legendary American playwright August Wilson, particularly his seminal 1987 piece The Piano Lesson, which serves as the basis and eponym of his latest film and budding awards season contender.
Adapted and directed by his younger brother, Malcolm Washington, who makes a superb debut as a feature filmmaker, The Piano Lesson dropped on Netflix on Nov 22 following acclaimed bows at Telluride, Toronto, and London. The film follows siblings Boy Willie and Berniece who clash over whether to sell a family heirloom. The play is one of Wilson’s Century Cycle — 10 entries that interrogate Black American life in the 20th century. John David is Boy Willie, a complex role fueled by all the ghosts and ghouls of American history that are offered up by Wilson in the play.
“This story is one of the rare times I’ve been able to play a character who’s very verbal about what he’s going through,” he says. The challenge, he adds, was not only artistic but personal.
“If I could handle this story it would be one of the hardest characters I’ve ever played. If couldn’t do it, maybe I wasn’t good enough. Perhaps I was at a certain level where I could only do certain characters. So there was a lot of pressure,” he continues.
Also starring are Samuel L. Jackson, Ray Fisher, Danielle Deadwyler, Michael Potts and Corey Hawkins. Malcolm Washington co-wrote the screenplay with Virgil Williams (Mudbound) and the producers are Denzel Washington and Todd Black. Below, John David digs further into the process of bringing Wilson’s work to the screen with his brother, balancing theatre work with the cinema, where he sees himself in the wider film industry, and his desire to work with filmmakers like Paul Thomas Anderson and Jordan Peele.
DEADLINE: John David, how are you feeling? The film’s finally out.
JOHN DAVID WASHINGTON: I feel good for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I remember many years ago when they were doing the television version of The Piano Lesson, August Wilson said in an interview that he was excited about it being on that platform because more people would have access to it. So it excites me knowing this film will be available to everybody with a Netflix account. And I’m excited about what people are saying about Malcolm. It’s amazing. That’s got me pumped up because I knew it. And people who knew him always knew, but we just wanted him to jump and go for it. When he finally did, he nailed it.
DEADLINE: Malcolm is getting a lot of praise for his work on this film. And it is very clear that he’s a special filmmaker with a vision. When did you first know he was the real deal?
WASHINGTON: I’ve always known just based on our conversations and how he feels and sees cinema. I knew he could do anything but in the initial conversation, he was saying what I was hoping to hear, which was a new take on this story. The Piano Lesson is very unique to all the other plays in the century cycle. We have the supernatural element. Obviously, family dynamics run pretty rampant in the stories. But in this case, there’s the backdrop of the Jim Crow South and themes of the 1936 upward mobility. There’s this bed of history that we’re building on. And then we have these wonderfully detailed and intricate characters. Malcolm understood this all and then pushed the envelope visually, which is what I was hoping some director could do with this because there are so many opportunities. And he did it. He nailed it.
DEADLINE: Your performance to me here is unique to your others because of its physicality. You can really see the history that is haunting and fueling Boy Willie in the way you walk and talk. How did you go about building that?
WASHINGTON: The film offered ways to tell the story that was different from the play. For example, because some lines were cut, I could use those lines for backstory. And with the actual physical characteristics of this particular farmer, there was a farmer I got to know quite well. His name is Jeremy Meyer. He’s out of Iowa. He’s a fifth-generation farmer and we talked a lot about the physicality of the work and the tax it takes on your body. Generally, I was thinking a lot about his motivations for being there in the first place. It wasn’t just about the piano. I think he’s a bit anxious too. He doesn’t know exactly how it’s gonna go. I suspect he doesn’t talk that much or even that fast when he’s outside with other people. But when he gets with his older sister and his family, he just can’t help himself. Also, the set decorations and locations helped a lot. That house helped with the behavior.
DEADLINE: I read that you said you wanted to do this production because you thought it might help you discover what kind of actor you are or wanted to be. I had two questions from that: As an actor, what were you working from before this film? And what did you discover after?
WASHINGTON: Before the play, I had the opportunity to do a lot of action and stunt work with more introspective characters. This story is one of the rare times I’ve been able to play a character who’s very verbal about what he’s going through. That’s what I was referring to. And if I could handle this story it would be one of the hardest characters I’ve ever played. And if couldn’t do it, maybe I wasn’t good enough. Perhaps I was at a certain level where I could only do certain characters. So there was a lot of pressure. This to me was just the perfect character. I didn’t have to work on it. I didn’t have to discuss any changes with a director. All I had to add was my life experience and research, but there’s nothing to work out other than finding the answers through the character. Now, that felt like a lot of pressure, but also a first for me. So that’s what I meant. What I found afterward is that I feel comfortable now. I feel able to do any character that’s written. I just feel like I can handle any language now because of this.
DEADLINE: I was looking back at your work over the last decade and your output has been pretty high and varied. It’s an interesting space you’re in and also I imagine quite weird. How do you feel about your current position?
WASHINGTON: A weird place indeed, particularly with Tenet coming out during the pandemic. Another big sci-fi film I did came out last year during the SAG strike. I didn’t feel like I got to market it the way I’m marketing this. Malcolm & Marie was an interesting film when it was released by Netflix, but because of the same things, we didn’t get to market it. So I’m not sure where I am in my career, according to the industry, to be honest. But I get reminded how audiences see me when I’m on the subway and people say they connected with something or if I’m in the airport and someone says they love my work. But it’s hard to know where I am. Maybe that’s partly why I also wanted to do this because I’m not sure how I’m perceived in this industry. I mean, there’s negativity all the time. You check the comment section and you’ll find something that’ll hurt your feelings. So I try not to look at it that way. It’s more about what can I do next to help me understand well, at least this filmmaker or this story found me, so this is the kind of actor they think I am.
DEADLINE: Going back to Tenet briefly. I think as a culture mostly because it was the pandemic, we didn’t realize or discuss how rad it was that you were the first Black protagonist in a Nolan film. Did you guys discuss that at all or were you aware of how interesting it was?
WASHINGTON: I think what was so brilliant, which is one of the reasons I know Nolan is a real one, is because he didn’t sensationalize it. He didn’t say we’re on the precipice of history or anything like that. He just said he’s a man. He’s the protagonist. I know who I picked, and I think that kind of thinking was what I was very excited about. Now, of course, I thought about it because first I’m in a Nolan film and yeah there’s a Black dude with a beard on the cover. He’s never done that before, so it was rock and roll, man. He was shaking up the industry with that hire to me. I was very aware of it and didn’t take that kind of responsibility lightly.
DEADLINE: Speaking with you, Malcolm, and your sister Katia who is a producer on The Piano Lesson, it feels like you guys are quite interested in upholding a specific lineage of Black art making. I mean, even your brother’s decision to start his career with an August Wilson play feels very intentional. Am I observing that correctly? And if so, why?
WASHINGTON: You know, I don’t know what Malcolm does next. Maybe he does a blockbuster or something. I don’t know what he’s thinking, but I do know how important he holds storytelling and representation. I don’t know if that’s what motivates him, but I do know that it means a lot to him about how we are represented in cinema and what we’re saying both in front and behind the camera. I know my sister Katia feels that way as well. I think ultimately what I can say is that you can trust something they’re a part of. You see Katia or Malcolm’s name on something and you might not be sure what it is yet, but you can trust that it’s going to be meaningful, and we’re going to be seen and we’re going to be upheld. That’s the goal for me as well. When you see something I’m a part of, you can trust that it’s going to be something interesting.
DEADLINE: As you said earlier, we’ve been living in such unprecedented times. How do you see the industry now?
WASHINGTON: I’m seeing diversity, especially in the streaming space. That being said, we’re still behind. I think we still need more diversity. I think we need to accelerate the opportunities for us, by us. I also think we’re seeing directors making films. Whether it’s Darren Aronofsky or Paul Thomas Anderson, he’s got some coming out. Jordan Peele is cooking up, and Ryan Coogler’s new trailer is out. That looks phenomenal. So people are working. It’s hard to say where the industry is, though, I guess because of streaming and AI. But look at the Wicked and Gladiator numbers. People are showing up to the theater still. People still want storytelling. I believe in the power of storytelling, and I think people still want to be entertained. So if there’s a market for that, if people still want to enjoy movies and a communal sense, I think we’re always going to have a place and opportunities to tell stories.
DEADLINE: What do you want to do next?
WASHINGTON: I would love to collaborate. I would love to work with filmmakers that are out there, either with new voices or voices that we love. I would like to do Shakespeare. I would like to do The Taming of the Shrew. I would like to do a Tennessee William play or something original on stage. I want to go back. I just saw Hold On to Me Darling with Adam Driver off-Broadway. He’s phenomenal. So I’m still hungry to tell stories and to collaborate with people who know what they’re doing.
DEADLINE: You speak a lot about Shakespeare and the stage in general. Why does the theatre keep pulling you back? I know a lot of actors do it once and run away to film or TV because of how terrifying the stage is.
WASHINGTON: It is terrifying. But there’s something about the perseverance it requires. Every time you’re done and you take that final bow, you feel so good. You feel like you’ve contributed to the world through your art. And it’s immediate. You get the people that are seeing it right away. They’re letting you know whether you did good or not. I also just think it’s a great place to learn. My old man talks about that all the time. That’s how you learn how to act. I want to be the best actor I can be. So I have to have that balance. As much as I want to collaborate one day with a Paul Thomas Anderson or Jordan Peele I need to be able to say I’ve done a Shakespeare or Tennessee Williams play.